- comment
Jim Hoeft - body
- Wow! Nice post, Shaun.
- comment Riley, Not O'Reilly
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- At the rate we're going, the U.S. flag and America as one nation will be quaint relics in the not too distant future.
- comment D.J. McGuire
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- Shaun,
That was the most insightful comment on the Confederacy I have ever seen. Nice work.
- comment Vivian J. Paige
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- Great post, Shaun.
- comment too conservative
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- Even posting trash that the confederate flag is like the swastika is beneath you Shaun.
One was fought under by millions of our American brothers , who had no fight in keeping slavery, but instead protecting their homes.
Another was used, and contrived for the sole purpose of bringing back a relic from the ancient Aryan race.
The entire use of the swastika by the Nazis was part of the propoganda by Minister Joseph Goebbels, and Heinrich Himler.
The Confederate flag has history in Christian tradition.
- comment A Voter
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- I thought that we were only allowed to wave the Mexican flag... did I miss something?
- comment Waldo Jaquith
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- One was fought under by millions of our American brothers , who had no fight in keeping slavery, but instead protecting their homes.
That's two mistakes in one sentence. First, they weren't Americans. They'd seceded. Second, the idea that none of the soldiers of the Confederacy had any interest in maintaining slavery is just silly.
- comment republitarian
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- Thought I would make a post just so you could see my mug inset into a rebel flag. If you've never done so, click to enlarge on my profile.
- comment Dannyboy
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- The part of James' argument that you posted is the only part that I agreed with. No, I don't own a confederate flag, but I can understand why some (like TC) do. I'm proud of my Southern Heritage, and while I do feel sorry that our Southern Leaders of the time didn't have the moral courage to act, I don't think we should forget their other qualities. Jefferson and Washington both owned slaves, and did nothing to change that. Should we forget all that these men have done for our country simply for that fact? I will continue to hold Robert E. Lee in a form of reverence, as I have for quite some time now.
- comment Dannyboy
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- By the way, Waldo, yes. You are correct in stating that many Confederates fought in the war over slavery. However, it has been estimated by experts that only 5% or so of those who fought in the Civil War owned slaves. So while it was a factor to many, it clearly couldn't have been the most important.
- comment Jim Bacon
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- I can understand those who embrace the Confederate flag for reasons of cultural pride. One of the few demographic groups in the United States it's PC to stereotype negatively is white Southerners. I view the defense of the flag as an in-your-face pushback -- a figurative middle-fingered salute to liberal elites. The more they agitate to get rid of the flag, the more tenaciously people defend it.
But I would argue that, as Virginians, we have a much better flag to display -- the Virginian flag. Motto: Sic Semper Tyrannis... Thus Always to Tyrants. That does a much better job of expressing my value system.
- comment Virginia Centrist
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- The virginia flag is awesome, for many obvious reasons.
- comment Maura in VA
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- Great post, Shaun. This is the first time I've ever wholeheartedly agreed with something you've written! (And thanks to Waldo for his aggregator, incouraging me to add more conservative blogs to my RSS feed every day.)
Wow - Virginia progressives and conservatives agreeing on something. What's next? Dogs and cats together? Jonathan Mark and Jim Moran becoming pals? Bob Marshall donating to Planned Parenthood? A sensible budget deal out of the General Assembly? We can only hope. ;-)
- comment Maura in VA
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- Oops...how mortifying! I meant "encouraging", not "in-", of course.
- comment Politicl.Animal
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- VC, would you agree that Virginia's flag is well-endowed with awesomeness?
- comment Andrew Vehorn
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- Let us not forget that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North:
"Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, ... order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States"
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
"are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued"
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren't that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn't have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said "We're fighting because you're down here"
- comment Andrew Vehorn
- body
- Let us not forget that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North:
"Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, ... order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States"
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
"are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued"
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren't that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn't have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said "We're fighting because you're down here"
17 Comments:
That was the most insightful comment on the Confederacy I have ever seen. Nice work.
One was fought under by millions of our American brothers , who had no fight in keeping slavery, but instead protecting their homes.
Another was used, and contrived for the sole purpose of bringing back a relic from the ancient Aryan race.
The entire use of the swastika by the Nazis was part of the propoganda by Minister Joseph Goebbels, and Heinrich Himler.
The Confederate flag has history in Christian tradition.
That's two mistakes in one sentence. First, they weren't Americans. They'd seceded. Second, the idea that none of the soldiers of the Confederacy had any interest in maintaining slavery is just silly.
But I would argue that, as Virginians, we have a much better flag to display -- the Virginian flag. Motto: Sic Semper Tyrannis... Thus Always to Tyrants. That does a much better job of expressing my value system.
Wow - Virginia progressives and conservatives agreeing on something. What's next? Dogs and cats together? Jonathan Mark and Jim Moran becoming pals? Bob Marshall donating to Planned Parenthood? A sensible budget deal out of the General Assembly? We can only hope. ;-)
"Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, ... order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States"
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
"are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued"
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren't that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn't have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said "We're fighting because you're down here"
"Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, ... order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States"
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
"are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued"
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren't that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn't have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said "We're fighting because you're down here"
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